Sourcing Local with Bettina

keywords: restaurant business, local ingredients, brand change, community support, menu development, dietary restrictions, food trends, entrepreneurship, Bettina Skorman, Earth to Table

takeaways

• Bettina's journey began as a pastry chef at Ancaster Mill.

• The concept of 'Earth to Table' emphasizes local and seasonal ingredients.

• Challenges in the restaurant industry include licensing and operational hurdles.

• Brand changes can stem from trademark issues and market positioning.

• Community support is crucial for local businesses.

• Sourcing local ingredients requires more effort than using suppliers.

• Menu development balances taste, quality, and dietary restrictions.

• Trends in the food industry can be influenced by customer feedback.

• Maintaining a family-friendly atmosphere is important for customer loyalty.

• Quality ingredients take precedence over cost in menu planning.

summary

In this conversation, Bettina Skorman, owner of Bordeaux on Lock Street, shares her journey from pastry chef to restaurant owner, discussing the challenges and triumphs of running a restaurant. She emphasizes the importance of local ingredients, community support, and the evolution of her brand from Earth to Table to Bardo. Bettina also addresses the complexities of menu development, dietary considerations, and the impact of trends in the food industry, all while maintaining a focus on quality and customer engagement.

titles

• From Pastry Chef to Restaurant Owner: Bettina's Journey

• Navigating the Restaurant Industry: Challenges and Triumphs

Sound Bites

• "Good ingredients matter since 2010."

• "I discovered the world of slow food."

• "Taste and quality go before price."

Chapters

00:00The Journey of Bettina Skorman

09:48Navigating Challenges in the Restaurant Business

19:42Sourcing Local Ingredients and Supporting Farmers

27:30Navigating Customer Expectations and Pricing

28:26Creating Community-Driven Menu Items

30:04The Importance of Organic Growth in Business

31:09Marketing Strategies and Local Engagement

32:20Website Design and Brand Identity

33:07Adapting to Post-Pandemic Challenges

35:17Maintaining Family-Friendly Atmosphere

37:14Balancing Dietary Restrictions and Taste

41:56Prioritizing Quality Over Cost

43:32Staying Ahead of Food Trends

Transcript

Alex Hobcraft (00:00)

Good afternoon, everyone. Today I have the pleasure of speaking with Bettina Skorman, who is the owner of Bardō on Locke Street. They have two other locations, one in Burlington and one in Guelph. Thank you so much for joining me, Bettina.

Bettina (00:13)

Thank you for having me. Yeah.

Alex Hobcraft (00:15)

Yeah, so I wanted

to chat with you because I know that restaurant business is one of the hardest businesses to run. Bardō none, in my opinion. ⁓ Can you walk us through the opening journey ⁓ and all the way from Earth to Table to Bardō Doe today and what motivated the change ⁓ and have any of your core philosophies changed of like good ingredients matter since 2010?

Bettina (00:43)

How long do we have?

Alex Hobcraft (00:45)

You have five minutes.

Bettina (00:47)

It's a long

story. So I'll do it as quickly as I can, just like my, you know, obviously this is my perspective. This is how I got to where am right now. And it was, ⁓ I was the pastry chef at the Ancaster Mill. And just a backstory, a quick backstory on that. I had gone to university.

Alex Hobcraft (01:01)

Perfect.

Bettina (01:16)

with no skills, I graduated. had wanted to go for ⁓ international relations, because I thought that would be travel in some capacity, because I have a German father, so a lot of traveling when I was young. So was like, this is part of what I want to do. And then quickly realized economics and business aren't in my wheelhouse. ⁓

Alex Hobcraft (01:21)

Okay. You

Bettina (01:42)

So I

quickly went to a minor in political sciences with a major in psychology with no plan. So then I had this weird conversation with a friend who had gone to culinary school and he gave me this story about consomme. So have you ever made consomme before? So it's like the first...

Alex Hobcraft (01:48)

Okay.

I have not made it, I, yeah, I'm, yeah, familiar with the base of a scoop, right?

Bettina (02:08)

thing, it's the very

Alex Hobcraft (02:09)

Yeah.

Bettina (02:09)

first thing you learn in cooking school. It's like you have to take a beef stock and turn it into a clear soup with egg whites. And you take the egg whites and the egg whites float to the top and you have to like skim the whites off and you're left with a basically ⁓ Campbell's beef stock is the desired look and color is what you're going for. So

Alex Hobcraft (02:18)

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Bettina (02:34)

He said that he gave me that story. like that. was like, things just clicked in my brain. was like, that makes sense to me. So I went to cooking school, George Brown, 1998. Spent a year baking at the Whistler Mountain. That was like a year abroad, kinda. I was like, okay, it's kinda working. And then...

Alex Hobcraft (02:56)

Yeah.

Bettina (03:00)

When I got back to the area, I'm from Grimsby, but so when I got back to the area, I was looking, so now we're into like the year 2000, I was looking for just a job applied at the Ancaster Mill. Got a job as the garde-manger, so like line cook. At some, a series of events, I ended up as the pastry chef there.

Alex Hobcraft (03:05)

Yeah.

Bettina (03:21)

My lead up to that, I'd spent like four years as a tree planter. So I have this like, ⁓ environmental exploration background. So I was like spending a lot of time in Northern Ontario, Northern Alberta, Northern Manitoba, you know, through your twenties and you're just like doing shit and.

Alex Hobcraft (03:39)

Yeah.

Bettina (03:43)

And then, I kind of landed back in the Hamilton area. I got an apartment in Dundas. I got a job at the Ancaster Mill and this was like my little network for, you know, a few years. I discovered the world of slow food through the Ancaster Mill. I like, it's this, ⁓ so I do have a bit of a school background with wanting to learn. So slow food was this, it was a, ⁓

Alex Hobcraft (03:52)

Okay. You

Bettina (04:11)

movement is kind of slowed down now haha no pun but it was like this movement kind of early 2000s Carlo Petrini who founded it was furious that a McDonald's

was being built at the base of the Spanish steps you know in Rome so it was like his reaction to that happening and this was really something that like coming as a kid from the 70s and knowing 70s and 80s and kind of

Alex Hobcraft (04:25)

Mm. Mm.

Bettina (04:37)

knowing that and it was this, this like reaction to that type of food. And so was really able to like

Alex Hobcraft (04:42)

You

Bettina (04:44)

sink my teeth into that, went to Italy, found like my ⁓ vibe and my tone was really this like ⁓ academic approach to food and, and embracing the local component to it and the farm component to it. Like Jeff Crump, who was my business partner at the time, he had brought that slow food.

Alex Hobcraft (04:52)

Yeah.

Bettina (05:07)

⁓ component to us. And so we did this, the first cookbook that we did through the Ancaster mill was earth to table seasonal, this is all like publisher stuff,

seasonal recipes from an organic farm or something like that. So like we partnered with Chris Kruker, who's the local farmer for a year. We did this like whole farm to table thing and that's where that was born. And then, yeah.

Alex Hobcraft (05:23)

Yeah.

Mmm. Yeah, that's cool.

Bettina (05:33)

And so, I mean, that's like a snapshot. And so that kind of brings us to, you know, through those years, I won a few accolades as a pastry chef. I was pastry chef for the year, got to travel to Paris, got to work in New York City at some of the best restaurant, like, best restaurant, like Perse, which is Thomas Keller, Jean George, a couple of the craft, Gramercy Tavern. Anyways, so I got that experience at like high end fine dining. That's what the Ancaster Mill was.

Alex Hobcraft (05:41)

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Bettina (06:03)

but then I also just like loved food and so did Jeff. And so like, was, I really got into bread. And then I had kind of like wanted to like break out of being the pastry chef. So then I opened up a little market stall on Ottawa street in 2009 and I just was selling pies and bread and apple cider muffins. And I did that for two years. And this article came out in,

Alex Hobcraft (06:03)

Yep.

Yeah.

Yep.

Hmm.

Bettina (06:31)

the spectator on like up and comers or like local businesses or whatever it was. And it was like, here's this chef from Ancaster mill. And, you know, it was really just like a thing, but then it exploded just based on that one article. Like I couldn't keep up with the pie sales. And it was just like one of those little, yeah, like it was crazy. And then, and then, and then like, you know, yeah, like, so whatever. then I had, so then I was like, went to Aaron Shinkoni and I said,

Alex Hobcraft (06:48)

⁓ wow, that's awesome!

But it's a hard problem. It is a hard problem to have sometimes. Yeah.

Bettina (07:01)

So Aaron Cicconi, he's, Aunt Castor Mill, he's Pearl Hospitality, right? So he's the finance CAA behind all these projects. So I was like, I'm ready to, not that I'm ready to, but I would like to open a bakery and maybe sell the products back to the other properties. And he was like, let's figure how to do that together. And it was just always this like evolution of me being the pastry chef at the Aunt Castor Mill, like for the longest time. And then,

Alex Hobcraft (07:13)

Hmm.

Yeah.

Bettina (07:30)

And then once we landed on the Lock Street spot, which is 2010, the cookbook had come out. We kind of worked with this branding company, came up with Earth to Table as like an umbrella brand, because we knew we wanted to do other things like the farm and blah, blah. But then Bread Bar was the restaurant. So it was like Earth to Table Bread Bar. And I think there was like some

Alex Hobcraft (07:46)

Yeah.

Right, got it. Yeah.

Bettina (07:58)

patent issues, not some patent issues, some trademark issues, which is why we ended up losing the bread bar in the end. So like we, yeah, so we were able to trademark Earth's Table, we were able to trademark Good Ingredients Matter, we weren't able to trademark Bread Bar, for whatever reason, I can't remember. But if we looped it all into one logo, we were able to use it. Because some things you just can't trademark, like you can't trademark

Alex Hobcraft (08:17)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Bettina (08:29)

⁓ bread. You can't trademark the word muffin. Like these are things. I think, yeah, it was like these, like one of these. ⁓ Anyways, whatever it was. So that kind of happened. We go five years, we opened Guelph. ⁓ And we like that location had so many struggles. Like it went through not having the proper ⁓ license, liquor license for a long time. We didn't have enough.

Alex Hobcraft (08:31)

Right, word, yeah, you're not allowed.

Bettina (08:57)

washrooms for the number of seats. Like it was just really weird thing. then the city. Anyways, we were only allowed to have 30 seats for a long time. Yeah. And then

Alex Hobcraft (09:03)

Yeah, it's all these small things. Yeah, all these small things just

add up and people don't think about that.

Bettina (09:12)

I know. Well, and then we had

the street shut down for that. I don't even remember what year that was. 2017, 2018, 2019.

Alex Hobcraft (09:19)

2019. And I'll tell you why it's 2019.

Because we signed our lease for Footprints and the ink was still wet when they started ripping up, ripping up the street. And we had no idea that they were going to be doing that. our launch, which was supposed to start in September, had to be pushed back till almost November. And then COVID happened in 2020. it's just these little things that you...

Bettina (09:30)

Nobody told you. my God.

my God. Yeah. Yeah.

Alex Hobcraft (09:48)

You laugh now, but at the time I'm like, okay, we're gonna die, so. Yeah, yeah.

Bettina (09:53)

Absolutely, 100%. Like what happens now? Yeah,

so then 2019 and then it's like, all right, here we go. And then yeah, obviously COVID happened. I mean, we were able to get locks, the Guelph location opened pretty successfully. Like obviously everybody doesn't like to remember the first year, but it was hard to.

Alex Hobcraft (10:16)

Yeah.

Bettina (10:19)

but it's kind of smooth sailing now. And then with the pandemic, we had a number of like failed starts. we did. ⁓ Okay, so here's a good one for you. So we opened that James Street location, which was great. So we opened, we moved the whole bakery to the James Street location. Because the bakery couldn't sustain more than two locations. So if we were going to open a third location, the bakery had to move. This was like

Alex Hobcraft (10:25)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Bettina (10:46)

because we were doing all the pizza dough, all the bread in the little lock street location and the restaurant. So ⁓ we moved the bakery to the James Street, which was great. I mean, it sucked because there were stairs, many, beautiful locations. So that February, I don't even remember when Michelle Obama came to town. There was a real buzz.

Alex Hobcraft (10:52)

Yeah. Yeah.

Beautiful location. It was beautiful there. I loved it there. ⁓

yeah.

Bettina (11:13)

Like it was like

Michelle Obama did a talk at a cops or whatever we're calling it now. And we're calling it And afterwards, and I went and saw her, it was awesome. And I had a group of girlfriends come from Guelph and a few of her friends came. And then we went to the location afterwards and it was just like a whole room of middle-aged women. But I was like, this is a vibe. I'm like,

Alex Hobcraft (11:16)

Yeah.

Yeah, I call it cops.

you

Totally inspiring,

Bettina (11:43)

everyone was having the like it was so inspiring. I'm

Alex Hobcraft (11:43)

yeah. Yeah.

Bettina (11:46)

like, this exists like this is going to be such a great location for things like this. And then the pandemic and then like four months later, because I was in February or like whatever it was like three, it was all very close. Right? Like, and you're just like, ⁓ so then with the then with the decline of the downtown area, that's like

Alex Hobcraft (11:51)

Yes.

was March when it came up. Yeah, it all went downhill. Yeah.

Bettina (12:09)

You know, it just couldn't, it just couldn't sustain what it was. Yeah. And then the same thing kind of at the hotel, like we were trying to open this location that was already so that one thing. the hotel in Burlington, I don't know if you know the Pearl Hotel, we tried to open a bread bar unit there, just like a little express. But you know, sometimes when you're opening locations, the footprints already been drawn, even if it is a new build. Like.

Alex Hobcraft (12:09)

whole other kettle of fish, but yeah, I know. It was crazy times. Yeah.

No.

Yeah.

Bettina (12:37)

They don't allow anybody like, like once the mechanical and the electrical has been drawn and this like these projects get passed from hands to hands, like nobody's paying the money to get that redone. So you kind of are stuck with what you're given. So that was kind of what happened at the hotel, which is fine for hotels, sucks for the restaurant part. so that didn't go, so those were two false starts. And, ⁓ so it's, you know, real ego.

Alex Hobcraft (12:49)

Great.

Yeah. Yeah.

Bettina (13:06)

blows.

Alex Hobcraft (13:07)

I know we we had to

close our location in 2023 the end of 23 it it hurts it's I mean it really does hurt you put we put 14 years into that location and It just wasn't sustainable. I feel your pain like I mean, it's great that you had all these starts though, which is really awesome good sometimes Like just shit happens as you know like and you

Bettina (13:14)

It hurt. Yeah.

Yeah

Alex Hobcraft (13:33)

You have to just roll with it. But it's like there is an emotional roller coaster that it's not for the faint of heart being an entrepreneur. That's for sure.

Bettina (13:33)

Yeah.

Well, and that's my, like I often know my situation is a little bit luxurious because I do have parole hospitality. Like I know, like as much as Aaron like knows I'm a pastry chef and he's like trying to bend me into a business person, like he's like, like I must drive him.

fucking nuts. Like he must look at me like I'm cuckoo bananas because like because I'm always like and I'm like I have this and this and this and this and he's like put it in the plant. I'm like what do you mean? He's like I need numbers. I need to know what you're talking about. He's like it's a great idea. I don't want to talk about your idea anymore. Like put it in a Like what are you talking about?

Alex Hobcraft (14:19)

Yeah.

It's hard, but it's hard to get that. mean,

you get these huge aberrations of what you want to do. It's just like, this would be amazing. And then you do, it's grounding, but it can be stalling your creativity by hitting these things, financials. Like, we don't have the right location, but we think this would be a great idea.

Bettina (14:42)

Yeah.

Sure.

Alex Hobcraft (15:00)

and there's all these little hiccups and to push through that. And it's interesting that you bring up that you found the people to help you. Like it wasn't just like you by yourself. And I think a lot of people think that you found people to support your creativity. Yeah.

Bettina (15:18)

no, was not me. Yeah. I mean,

I was there for sure. And I may have planted a few seeds, but no, I've been, ⁓ I've basically been dragged along. I think is what is what's happened. They're just like, is she still here? Like Jesus Christ.

Alex Hobcraft (15:23)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Hahaha! ⁓

Bettina (15:36)

Yeah, yeah, so

Alex Hobcraft (15:37)

That's hilarious. That's hilarious. But you've, mean, it's

still, know that you're, you're still like, you push for things like, know you've pushed for the seating for your lock street location on, on the street. you went, you've gone through a lot of those, you know, the hard frustrating conversations with city planners and, and, and with, with locals and yeah.

Bettina (15:49)

Yeah.

my God, it's

the approach that the city takes versus independent business is like infuriating. And sometimes I get really frustrated at the meetings, especially with Maureen, because she talks to us like we're not already working our asses off. She's like, well, if you could and you're like, fuck off, like we can't just.

Alex Hobcraft (16:07)

I know. It really is.

Yeah, no,

it's not as easy to pivot and it's not as easy. That was what was most frustrating for COVID for me. I hate to talk about COVID so much, just how you could, we found it frustrating. You could get a tattoo, but you couldn't have a private music lesson. And we're just like, where's the logic here? Where is the logic? ⁓

Bettina (16:26)

Yeah.

No, go ahead. it's a...

Yeah.

Yeah.

Alex Hobcraft (16:44)

And that's what's frustrating is that it's easy for government and the city to say things. And I know that it was an unusual circumstance, and I do get that. But it was slow going. There was no urgency to get out of COVID, which we've our experience. two years of no income. It's like, yeah. And I don't think that was really

Bettina (16:50)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

It was the word, it was, yeah, no, it was, we, no income. Yeah, like.

Alex Hobcraft (17:14)

put forward for a lot of people. mean, Canada has 40 % people who work for the government, so they wouldn't understand that being self-employed is like, we don't get a check every month, every week that you're getting. So it is frustrating, for sure. But you still found the people to work with and to grow and to come up with new ideas, which I think is, you know, that's...

Bettina (17:24)

They don't get it. I know.

Alex Hobcraft (17:42)

That's commendable. That's awesome. ⁓

Bettina (17:46)

Well, yeah, and I mean, ⁓ I do it kicking and screaming, but I know that these people have my best interest at heart. ⁓ But yeah, you did mention the brand change. So I want to know what the word on the street is on the brand change. Like, what do people... Yeah.

Alex Hobcraft (17:58)

Yeah.

I mean, I like it. think it's a cool name.

I think it was good. I didn't know why you had done it. That was the only thing that I was just curious about. But I understand how you've been in many bands and friends' bands who want to go. They have to change their band name because it's the very same thing in business. Sometimes you can't get the rights or what you want to be.

Bettina (18:17)

Yeah.

Yeah, no, that's

totally what it was. So it was that we so like I said at the very beginning, we got the we got the trademark on Earth to Table, we got the trademark on Good Ingredients Matter. And for whatever reason, we didn't get on Bread Bardō. And then 2022, somebody went to go like pull the sun like as we're like, looking to expand or grow or whatever, somebody went to go put that whole logo together as a trademark. And

Alex Hobcraft (18:58)

Mm-hmm.

Bettina (19:00)

the bread bar part got flagged and there's actually a company in Montreal who owns that bread bar. So we were never going to get it. there was, so like everyone was like, was it a cease and assist? It's like, no, but it was owned by somebody else who wasn't selling it. So like they could, they, if we kept going with it, they would have probably eventually given us a cease and assist. So we couldn't.

Alex Hobcraft (19:08)

Hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Bettina (19:29)

We couldn't take that brand any further confidently. So we went with Bardo.

Alex Hobcraft (19:32)

Yeah, yeah. Are you allowed to use it in any of your,

do you use it in any of your copywriting though or any of your language on your website? I didn't really see anything about it.

Bettina (19:42)

I know

they use it like formerly known as, which I think is fine. Like, and I don't think, like, yeah, there's this, I think that, like, I think there may be an opportunity or something that we didn't, like, I know there's a lot of rumblings that it went through, like management change, because I know that there was like ownership situation that happened that was very kind of on the DL for a long time, but.

Alex Hobcraft (19:45)

Yeah.

Bettina (20:08)

that had nothing to do with the brand change. So I know that they're probably everything's all probably tied together like grapevine. Why? Yeah.

Alex Hobcraft (20:14)

Mm-hmm. Well, I mean, it's got to be

a great reception, because as you know, your neighbour has gone through how many restaurant changes. you've dialed in a good recipe, and you've always been good to the community. There's something that you touched on earlier that I want to talk about, and that is how you do support local farmers.

Bettina (20:27)

It's wild. It's wild.

Alex Hobcraft (20:39)

and your local ingredients like your butternut squash soup and your heirloom beets. How do you source these items and what's an example of Hamilton local farm dishes that influences you of what you put on your menu?

Bettina (20:40)

Mm.

So we have a long history of trying to source locally and it is, it's hard. Like it's one of those things that a lot of kitchens can just like go on a website and they have everything in front of them. And then they just press buttons and their order shows up the next day. But when you want to work with local farmers, it's like phone calls, texts.

Alex Hobcraft (21:01)

Hmm.

Bettina (21:22)

volume amounts available. like, it makes growth hard because you're like, the hardest thing for growth is consistency. And like, so if you have anything on a small scale, it doesn't have to be consistent. You can like, you can get away with having a different item on the counter every day. And it's just a part of, it's part of your business. It's part of your brand. But if you want it to like,

Alex Hobcraft (21:28)

Mm-hmm.

Bettina (21:48)

go anywhere, have to have the flaws have to be by design all of a sudden. So it's a strange place because that's where I'm at. I'm like, all I know how to do is like the flaws and they're like, yeah, but you have to flaws have to be perfect every time. I'm like, okay, perfect flaws, perfect flaws. Okay. And

Alex Hobcraft (21:53)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. But you've had that philosophy

from the beginning of just being local, being farm fresh. Yeah, and you've stuck with it, which...

Bettina (22:13)

Yeah, yeah.

it's yeah, well, yeah, trying our best. So like, it's hard. So even starting off wanting to use only local organic flour, like I'm like, okay, this is a mantra. This is what I'm doing, local organic flour. And then all of a sudden I'm selling 100 pieces a day and day to day the flour is changing because it's from like soft,

softer whether it was harvested in the spring or whether it was harvested in the winter. And then it's like, my God, I can't use organic flour because if, well, or I have to reside that the spring pizzas are going to be different than the winter pizzas. And how am going to explain that to the public? Like, it's like a whole other, like they're not, they don't care. Like they don't want to speech before every pizza. So I'm like, okay, so maybe I can't use.

Alex Hobcraft (22:44)

Right. ⁓ wow.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah, yeah, it's true.

Bettina (23:08)

Organic flour, but I can use a local flour. So we found this ⁓ and floor like our three biggest items are like flour and mozzarella cheese like like those are what we use and butter like that's what we go through the most stuff and ⁓ So flour I we found like pH milling does a really good flour that we were able to use so I'm trying to just like focus on a local and Local could be like, Manitoba Like local isn't necessarily so I'm just working. just trying to find like

Alex Hobcraft (23:19)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Bettina (23:39)

⁓ Canadian grains that are consistent and trying to stay with it. Like, you know, I guess we're just constantly having to reevaluate what's local now. Cause if it's not meeting the need, and again, it's the same thing for coffee. Like we wanted to use, ⁓ well they're relay now, but when we opened, they were Redhill coffee roasters. Does that ring about anyways?

Alex Hobcraft (23:50)

You gotta pivot. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, think that's right.

Bettina (24:06)

Yeah, but they were super tiny at the time too. So like we use them for like a year and then we're like, okay, now we're going to need like this X, we're growing. So we're going to need you to grow. They're like, we can't. I'm like, okay, well now we'd like, so now we're going, so what's the next? So now it's like reunion Island, which is a local, but they're Oakville, not Hamilton. So we do make these conscious decisions. The produce is the hardest, obviously. So, ⁓ pardon.

Alex Hobcraft (24:15)

Yeah.

Yeah. ⁓

Yeah, I can imagine produce being the hardest in terms of consistency.

Bettina (24:37)

Yeah, and I mean,

obviously, yeah.

So we really can get away with. ⁓

Like, get away with it, sounds like such a nefarious term, but like, we do harness ⁓ things like frozen fruit. Like, can tell you, like, everybody's ⁓ not suspicious, but like, one of the things is like when that big Cisco truck pulls up in front of the restaurant, people will post things like, they're not at the table, they get everything from Cisco. And you're just like, okay, well, it's all frozen fruit and packaging.

Alex Hobcraft (24:50)

Yes.

Hmm.

Yeah,

yeah, yeah.

Bettina (25:13)

Like, like

they're like, we do, we do talk to Cisco about where they are getting their products from. So like they can tell me what provinces they're like, and it's not specific, but they can tell me who's got the best peaches this year. How many of them are going to be frozen? Raspberry same thing. Like are the raspberries coming from BC this year or are they coming from like, so they have their big suppliers and so they can, and if you're

Alex Hobcraft (25:20)

Yeah.

Bettina (25:41)

And if you ask, they can tell you. I think because that's part of their business model too, is to just be more informed. And I think that's kind of just part of it too, not being ⁓ so head in the sand about where your food's coming from.

Alex Hobcraft (25:43)

Yeah, yeah.

You have to be pragmatic at some point. Like there's only so much food. We have so many problems right now with growers and as I learned from Chris, from democracy, ⁓ there's a shortage of coffee, which I didn't know that that's the, which is interesting. I thought it was taxes and tariffs, but it's not. It's like, no, there's shortage of coffee. so you do have to, it's, you do have to,

Bettina (26:04)

Yeah.

Yeah

course. Yeah.

Alex Hobcraft (26:30)

I don't want to say question your values, but you have to think it's like, okay, I need to give customers what they want. That's the most important thing. How can we do that, but still stay true to our values during a pandemic, during certain times, during the fall of whatever soup you have on special. it's not as it's not patent dried as just like, yes, I can do this all the time because that's what

Bettina (26:38)

Mm-hmm.

Great.

Alex Hobcraft (27:00)

I want to tell people.

Bettina (27:03)

my god, it's so hard to ⁓ manage an image, which sounds weird. when we started, we wanted to do Fried Chicken Fridays. That was like part of what we did for a long time. And ⁓ we just started with like eight piece chickens from Cisco or whatever and charged whatever we charged for it. And then we were like, okay, now that we've figured this out, let's switch to organic chicken.

Alex Hobcraft (27:16)

Yep.

Mm-hmm.

Bettina (27:30)

And then, but when you do that, you have to like up the price by like $7. And everyone's like, we thought it was organic already. And we're like, nope. we come across as like always presenting.

Alex Hobcraft (27:34)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Bettina (27:47)

whatever it is that people are expecting and then when you're like, that's not, sorry, like I don't know. There's expectation there, that's not always that maybe.

Alex Hobcraft (27:53)

Yeah.

Well, mean, I'll be honest, like I think your pizzas are the best in the city. I love your pizzas. They're so good. I love the bee sting. ⁓ I recently just learned that the MVP, a dollar goes to your MVP employee. That's interesting way of doing things. love that. ⁓ How do you, so how do you, so with standout pieces and like, how do you create these ideas of whatever's happening in the kitchen and the community support with staff appreciation? ⁓

Bettina (28:02)

Thank you.

⁓

Yeah.

Alex Hobcraft (28:26)

That one product of just one pizza kind of hits all the buttons with everything. It helps the community, it helps your business. How do you come up with those?

Bettina (28:35)

You just like, don't, yeah,

you don't like shrug off an opportunity. I'm just gonna grab my drink. Just give me one sec. Sorry.

Alex Hobcraft (28:42)

Yeah, sure.

Bettina (28:43)

Everything has just happened organically, which is why I'm having such a struggle with this, having to put it in a plan idea. So that MVP thing came because there was a ⁓ staff member named Rob and his pizza was called the Rob and I can't even remember what was on it. It was like mozzarella.

Alex Hobcraft (28:51)

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Thank

Bettina (29:11)

girl ⁓ roasted garlic, mushrooms and scallions or something with a white sauce. Like it was delicious. Everybody loved it. People still ask for it by name, like the Rob. And then it was so popular that we put it on the feature and just like for Rob, we were like every Rob we sell, Rob gets a dollar. Like, and that was literally how it happened.

Alex Hobcraft (29:15)

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓

Yeah. Yeah.

Bettina (29:36)

So like Rob started selling the Rob, like it turned into like this thing, like everyone was selling the Rob so that Rob could get a dollar. And then we were like, let's do this for somebody else. Like let's turn this into a thing. like the next month, like the Rob went, and then it was like, well half of it should go to the front of the house and half of it should go back. And now it's an MVP, like now it's a thing. So it's like, it started so organically.

Alex Hobcraft (29:36)

That is it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Bettina (30:04)

It always does.

Alex Hobcraft (30:06)

Yeah, everything that you have starts organically. So like your happy hour that you have from four to six on Mondays and Thursdays and you have a wide Wednesday. Are those things that are good for bringing in local people or do you find that you get that it also pulls from outside the area?

Bettina (30:23)

⁓

Like to be honest, those are all brand new initiatives. And so I don't know if there's any real ⁓ data to say, like I don't know if we've like run the numbers like prior and post. And I think it's gonna be a few years before we actually have like any real comparison numbers again, like in terms of viable numbers. ⁓

Alex Hobcraft (30:29)

Mmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Bettina (30:50)

Nothing hurts, obviously. And I think some of the things are just like kind of really generic marketing, like giveaway free samples or, you know, just like all the, just like throwing a huge net and trying to capture as much as you can. Yeah.

Alex Hobcraft (30:52)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah

That's great. Well, I've noticed that one thing

I did notice, and I've advised restaurants who I've helped before to do the same, your website is not your normal, typical website. It is very much more modern, and I find much more interesting than just the straightforward restaurant websites. I don't know if that was by design or if you used someone or who did your website, but it seems much more modern way to do restaurants.

Bettina (31:38)

good.

I kind of I go to it and I'm like the opposite. I'm like this is confusing. Maybe. Yeah.

Alex Hobcraft (31:38)

Yeah.

It's because you're too close, I think. I think you're too close. And I'm the same with my website. You just, you can be too close

to something. It's like therapy for yourself, right? You can read all the self-help books you want, but at the end of the day, someone has to tell you you're an idiot. So you realize you're an idiot. So yeah.

Bettina (31:52)

Yeah.

That's right. You're like, none of this matters. Nothing that I'm

reading every night. This doesn't apply to me whatsoever. What are you talking about? Yeah. Yeah. Until it's like laid out in front of you. I know. I'm the same.

Alex Hobcraft (32:04)

Yeah.

Because I've hated my websites

many times. So like I totally get that. But I found it different. I found that you do have your vibe on your website, which I liked. Even with the change, I still thought it was you guys. yeah. ⁓

Bettina (32:20)

Okay, that's great. That's great.

Oh, that's great. Okay, so that's good to know. Because we

did take a big hit, hard to say economy slash brand change. There was so much happening all at the same time. That all happened a year and a half ago, 18 months ago. And so it was just like, coming out of the pandemic, people still didn't want to eat still. There was a whole bunch of stuff.

Alex Hobcraft (32:41)

Yeah. ⁓

Yeah.

Bettina (32:57)

Hard to say whether the hit was the brand change or a combination of all of the above, but it's good to know that it's coming back at least. Yeah.

Alex Hobcraft (33:07)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, well, that's

yeah, that is good. I we're noticing it's starting to come back a little bit too, which is good. ⁓ People did want in-person lessons over online lessons, which is fantastic. We might prefer that to having people here. You just have a better connection. it was it was interesting. I spoke about this to somebody else, but we had to change ⁓ how we how we how we did our

Bettina (33:20)

Yes!

100%.

Alex Hobcraft (33:36)

hired our teachers, like after the pandemic, ⁓ there were teachers who didn't want to come in person anymore. And I didn't even think that that would be an issue. And so they're like, no, like being here. And I'm like, well, our philosophy is that we're not an online music store. We did it for the pandemic. We're much more. So in some ways, we had to negotiate new terms with our teachers, which is fine. Like one teacher was like to, you know,

Bettina (33:43)

Wow. I wouldn't have thought that either. Yeah.

Yeah.

Alex Hobcraft (34:05)

the cost of the subway is a lot. And I'm like, okay, you're getting on the Toronto subway during a pandemic. You know what? I'll pay for your subway fare. And that was reasonable to, you know, and so there's these little things that you just don't think about that can add a lot to the cost. And getting people to come back, ⁓ what was challenging for us is that we had a great little network of 55 to seven year olds who would come back

Bettina (34:15)

Yeah. That's crazy.

Alex Hobcraft (34:35)

That was evaporated. We lost that thing because they didn't want to do online lessons. What's seven-year-old as good at online lessons? Not many, and they're in their house. So all these challenges kind of just come up somewhere. So I think the timing of your change was perfect because it was a good time because now you're just barred out, right?

Bettina (34:37)

Mmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-mm. I'm not. Yeah.

Yeah,

now we're just Bardō. yeah. That was a company. I didn't have it. Yeah, there was a lot going on at that time. So ⁓ we hired a company. kind of presented, was Laundry Media who came up with it. ⁓

Alex Hobcraft (35:02)

Yeah. And how did you come up with the name? Who came up with the name?

Okay.

Bettina (35:18)

And other than like...

I don't know, one was like Mishma, I'm like, there was a lot of bad, Smash was one, anyways. There was some bad names, but I was like, as long as it's not.

Alex Hobcraft (35:26)

yeah.

Bettina (35:30)

like, I don't know. It's really easy. Like, I really didn't want it to be like, like, fake and low for twig and tree or like, you know, I was like, it just needs to be something solid. It needs to be like not trendy. I think that's what I'm trying to say. Like, as long as it's, it can be whatever. It just can't be a trend. Like, just not, yeah. So, you know, some depth to it or something. So, I think there's...

Alex Hobcraft (35:37)

Right. Right.

Yeah.

Yeah. Right.

Bettina (35:58)

They were able to pull that off. whether, you know, I think as long as the product is good, doesn't really matter what it's called. You know? Yeah.

Alex Hobcraft (36:06)

Yeah. Now, did you notice

anything with the change in terms of your clientele? Because you've always been kind of a family friendly. And I know that you still offer a kids menu. And they can upgrade their fries for something that's a little healthier, like you still keep with that brand image. Did you notice any change with that with your clientele? Or is it pretty much just local and the same that has always been?

Bettina (36:14)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

There might have been, like there might have been a bit more of a formal air, but like some of the items the kids just have to have like the apple cider muffins and stuff. And I think like to have that daytime traffic is all moms, you know, and it's the moms who are there for the pastries and for the coffees and the moms and the kids and no knock to dads, but like it's moms and the kids and ⁓

Alex Hobcraft (36:45)

Hmm.

Yep. Yeah. Yeah, no.

Bettina (36:59)

So I think it's important that we kind of like make sure we have the stools in the bathrooms and make sure that the coloring books are around because like, yeah, the whole family affair is kind of what we're like, that's our meat and potatoes for sure. And like large groups and celebrations and yeah, no, I think it would be a shame to kind of lose that for some kind of at all only venue. That's lame.

Alex Hobcraft (37:11)

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Hmm, yeah, no,

definitely. What's that?

Bettina (37:28)

Adults are lame.

Adults are lame. They're boring.

Alex Hobcraft (37:34)

Yeah,

it's true, it's true. I confess, I'm one of those people. Now, one of the things that I've always found challenging in restaurants, you have to have your clientele, but how challenging is it? And you do a great job of making sure that it's gluten-free, vegan, dairy-free. How do you, is there a process to how you decide what's gonna be on the menu and who you're serving?

Bettina (37:36)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Alex Hobcraft (38:01)

as in terms of like you know this type of clientele or is that just something that you're like, nope, this is important and we need to have these dietary restrictions on our menu at all times.

Bettina (38:10)

leave in allergies as a human but in terms of like ⁓ the way that I approach it at the restaurant is I really want it to be ⁓

Alex Hobcraft (38:12)

Mm.

Bettina (38:21)

like ⁓ as naturally done as possible. So like I really shy away from bringing in gluten free products because we can't be a gluten free restaurant, but I can offer you your burger wrapped in a lettuce bun. But I, I'm not going to bring in a gluten free bun because it doesn't taste good. Like I really try and lead with, as long as it's still delicious and you're still going to enjoy your meal.

Alex Hobcraft (38:33)

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Bettina (38:50)

then that's fine, but I'm not gonna bring in a cauliflower crust so that you can still have pizza. Because that's not pizza. I think that people who make, and celiac is a whole different thing. Like a celiac person probably shouldn't be in the restaurant anyways. So like that's a whole other, like I don't even touch on that. Like that's not even something that I can talk about because we're full flour, but anything that we do would just be like no gluten added.

Alex Hobcraft (38:55)

Yeah. Yeah, right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

bright.

Bettina (39:20)

Like these don't have flour in them, but we could never claim to be a gluten-free facility. And if you want pizza, we can give it to you, you know, well, we don't do pizza, but like we'll try and work with you and accommodate your allergy, which is the nice thing about that. We still do make everything on site and that we are able to accommodate so many ⁓ dietary restrictions. but.

Alex Hobcraft (39:20)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Bettina (39:44)

Yeah, I definitely, and it's the same with baking. Like I don't do gluten-free baking, but if something happens to be gluten-free and still delicious and still works and I'm not having to put hundred other items in it to make it rise, then amazing. That's great. Yeah.

Alex Hobcraft (39:59)

Yeah, no,

being the dietary restrictions is challenging, I'm sure ⁓ as a restaurant owner, because you don't want to exclude, but at the same time, taste is important. And, you know, these, alternatives, they're getting, while getting better, sorry, but earth balance does not replace butter. Butter is just.

Bettina (40:06)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

my God,

one of the things that, so this is another thing, it's just a misinformation on food. So I was at a photo shoot once for the book and my photographer had pounds and pounds of pounds of Baisal margarine in her fridge. I'm like, what are you doing with Baisal? And she was like, we're doing a photo shoot with Baisal tomorrow. I'm like, for what? And she was like, Baisal is rebranding as.

Alex Hobcraft (40:39)

Yeah.

Bettina (40:49)

plant-based butter. And I'm just like...

Alex Hobcraft (40:53)

Yeah. Yeah, no.

Bettina (40:53)

It's not butter. But

people buy into that. So I'm just like, can't with alternatives always. I'm just like, it's not, we're not comparing apples to apples, oranges to oranges a lot of the time. Yeah.

Alex Hobcraft (41:05)

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

No, no, I hear you. hear you. ⁓ And so do you I mean, it's important to obviously earn an income doing this, but you do you when you're designing what goes on the menu? ⁓ Would you say that taste and quality goes before price in all aspects or or is it a balance of both? Yeah.

Bettina (41:30)

For me, yes. And then

I, that's right. That's right. Someone's like, do you know exactly how much pine nuts cost? I'm like, doesn't matter. They're the best. Like, like there's just some things that are so outrageous. You're just like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know how anybody, anyways, yeah.

Alex Hobcraft (41:35)

Your accountant gets involved and like, you can't sell this, you're gonna lose money.

Yes.

I mean.

Bettina (41:56)

There's some

crazy, some items are so crazy, like saffron and vanilla and all these things. Like I can't, no, I'm not going to compromise for sure.

Alex Hobcraft (42:02)

Yeah, yeah,

because it's got to be, yeah, because I mean, that's your that is your brand when you compromise sometime. There's a difference between not available and compromising for cost for sure. I mean. Yeah.

Bettina (42:06)

It's gotta be good. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah,

well, yeah, and I would like for flavor and taste and all that kind of stuff, I would like, I wouldn't serve it if I didn't think it was delicious or I couldn't serve it if I didn't think I got me. I'm sure things that aren't delicious go out. But like, if all things are equal and perfect, we're not serving things that aren't delicious.

Alex Hobcraft (42:34)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The

quality is always there. Not everyone can agree on flavors. But the quality will always be there for sure. just, and my final question is just what are some trends that are coming to the food industry and how do you plan to adapt if any, or do you just not even look at food industry and you just try to do your own thing?

Bettina (42:43)

Sure, it's a bit subjective, yeah. ⁓

definitely look at trends. ⁓ I, you know, but it depends on how far you want to take a trend. But I would, the things that I would do are like, who's doing what? Like, what is someone like ⁓ Tartine Bakery in San Francisco? Like, what are they doing right now? Is it that different than what we're doing? Or like, what's Pearl Murrow set up to? Like, are they doing?

Alex Hobcraft (43:03)

Mm.

Right.

.

Bettina (43:27)

What are they doing that we're not doing or we're doing that? You know, and it's never, ⁓ never that.

Bettina (43:32)

Where did I lose you?

Alex Hobcraft (43:33)

Oh, just said Bettina stopped recording. Oh, there we go. You're back.

Bettina (43:37)

Sorry, was, okay,

great.

Alex Hobcraft (43:40)

Where were we? We were at... you're checking out other ⁓ places around the world.

Bettina (43:46)

Yeah, so just kind of, don't think we're doing any, like, our food is so simple. It can only go in so many directions. So that's part of the beauty of it. Our customers are so loyal and they kind of, and that's one thing that we are very good at doing or that I really enjoy doing is talking to the customers and finding out what they want because they will tell you what the next trend is. And they will tell you, I, well,

Alex Hobcraft (43:55)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

And it's perfect.

Bettina (44:15)

I try to inject myself probably more than I should. Like there was at one point I didn't want to serve, ⁓ what was it? ⁓ what do you call it? Like artificial sweetener? Because it's not food. I jumped on my soap box, yes, blender or whatever it is. none of them are food. It was discovered in the laboratory in the process of like making nuclear bombs. was like, it was not, you know, it was an accident.

Alex Hobcraft (44:28)

Yeah. Splenda? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Bettina (44:45)

And your body doesn't even, you know, it does not connect to any organ or surface of your, again, like it's just sweet on your tongue and that's it. And so I'm trying to explain this to like the old biddies that come in, and biddies probably isn't a word, like they come in every Friday morning and I swear to God that they all put a hundred packets of sweetened low in their coffees. And if I take this away from them, will no longer come. Like this is their true joy on Friday morning.

Alex Hobcraft (44:54)

Hmm

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah,

yeah, yeah.

Bettina (45:14)

Like I have to have this sweet note.

So, you know.

Alex Hobcraft (45:18)

Yeah, sometimes you got to do it. So there are trends out there. You get trends from the customers and from your competition. I mean, that's perfect. That's exactly where you should be looking, right? That's awesome.

Bettina (45:19)

Yeah. You gotta do it.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't think. Yeah. And then just like always thinking you're behind, always thinking you don't know. And it'll keep you keep you looking.

Alex Hobcraft (45:38)

That's a very interesting point

because it's true. You do have to have the beginner's mindset in many ways. ⁓ You can have too much of of a of you think you know everything. I've been pegged down many times where I think I know everything and then it's just like, whoa, you know, I see somebody else, another cool or somebody else doing something. I'm like, wow. Like I'm just. Yeah.

Bettina (45:43)

Yeah.

Sure.

100%. You're like,

I've been doing this wrong the whole time. This whole time. Yeah. But then, but then you also get this too. Like you also get, so I was, I was in, I was traveling, I was in London and somebody said, you have to go to this great new restaurant. It's called Cadet. It's, it's great. And it's like, I'm like, perfect. I'm like, amazing. I'll go in, I'll get like an appetizer, glass of wine and it'll be, it'll be great.

Alex Hobcraft (46:08)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know it's it's

Bettina (46:33)

And I go in and it's great. mean, the guy's doing really awesome stuff, whatever, but it's one guy. It's me 25 years ago. Like you're like, I don't want, it's one guy behind the bar with a hot plate. He's doing everything. Like I'm like, I remember having that grit and having that like, you know, ⁓ energy, I guess, like be there 14 hours a day, seven days a week. And like, you know, like I,

Alex Hobcraft (46:41)

Right.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Bettina (47:02)

Couldn't do this, I couldn't do it anymore. That's for sure. Yeah.

Alex Hobcraft (47:03)

I know that's the thing. It's sustainable

only for a certain amount of time. And I think that's where you have to change how you look at your business and how things can... It doesn't always have to be growth. It can just be a good sized business that has all the elements that you want. You have good staff, you have good...

Bettina (47:15)

Yeah.

Alex Hobcraft (47:33)

you know, the joke, all the right ingredients, right? So you need the good staff, the location. Yeah, it always, it's amazing. like, and sometimes you do have to alter how things are gonna go to make it better or to make it change. And so ⁓ I think that's great. Well, Bettina, I'm gonna let you go. This has been a fabulous conversation. ⁓ I've learned so much.

Bettina (47:37)

Good ingredients matters, that always matters. Yes, they all matter, all the ingredients, yep.

Trademark.

Alex Hobcraft (48:02)

⁓ I hope we can do it again because this was fun and ⁓ everyone should go.

Bettina (48:06)

Yeah. What's

your, what's your listener ship?

Alex Hobcraft (48:11)

So my listenership now is one, it's just me, because I just started. So I started this because I've wanted to do it for a few years. And I've been just listening to a lot of the news and just how small businesses are being impacted by political decisions. I was like, I think I'm like, I want to go and talk to the people I know on the businesses that I know.

Bettina (48:16)

Okay. Okay. Okay, I like it.

Okay.

That's insane.

Alex Hobcraft (48:40)

and see how they're doing and what's happening. And so that was the whole idea. And I didn't know whether I wanted to go businessy or local, like I said, before we started recording. And so I just want people to understand what it's like to own a business, what's involved, and also to learn what's around them. So I've done all lock businesses first, some are in home and some are summer street. And then I'll be moving to

Bettina (48:40)

Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Alex Hobcraft (49:09)

Westdale and expanding out. So I have a very small audience right now, but my goal is to reach 2,000 within the first year. So that's my goal. Yeah, there we go. I'm putting it public. Yeah, nice. So yeah, thanks.

Bettina (49:23)

Okay, oh, that's amazing. So cute.

Exciting.

So you're right, we really didn't talk about the business side and ⁓ that's not, but I could tell you like the...

Like how I've been so fortunate to have a company like Pearl Hospitality. I don't have to, like as an entrepreneur, there's so many things that I don't have to worry about, but it offers its own set of issues, right? Like the grass is always greener, but it's always just as muddy. Like it's always whatever, you know? Yeah. Sure. Okay. Yeah, you're welcome. This has been fun.

Alex Hobcraft (49:52)

Yeah, yeah.

totally. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. That's a great analogy. Well, that will be definitely for part two. I love it. So thank you so much and we'll talk soon.

All right. Take care.